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Understanding Poker Tracking Software

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Understanding Poker Tracking Software  
  #1 12th December 2014, 12:25 AM
YouPay4MyCrack [81] Online Poker at: Full Flush Game: holdem
Understanding Poker Tracking Software How do I make it so I don't come up in other players Poker Tracker software? I really don't like cheaters so I don't want to give them this information about me if I can help it..
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  #2 12th December 2014, 12:29 AM
HooDooKoo [985] Poker at: Bovada Game: hold'em
First of all, using poker tracking software isn't cheating. If you don't want to deal with it, don't play online. To answer your question: you can opt out of sites like sharkscope , but there is nothing that you can do about the fact that all the hands you play will be recorded by Hold'em Manager and PokerTracker. -HooDooKoo
  #3 12th December 2014, 2:43 AM
YouPay4MyCrack [81] Online Poker at: Full Flush Game: holdem
Originally Posted by HooDooKoo First of all, using poker tracking software isn't cheating. If you don't want to deal with it, don't play online. To answer your question: you can opt out of sites like sharkscope, but there is nothing that you can do about the fact that all the hands you play will be recorded by Hold'em Manager and PokerTracker. -HooDooKoo
Yeah if you need special software that people can't even get without paying for just to win than I'd say that's cheating. But to each his own.
  #4 12th December 2014, 3:07 AM
HooDooKoo [985] Poker at: Bovada Game: hold'em
LOL. Whatever helps you sleep at night, fish. -HooDooKoo
  #5 12th December 2014, 4:05 AM
Randall McMurphy [493]
Bovada/Bodog does not allow those trackers, as far as I know.
  #6 12th December 2014, 4:23 AM
Sil3ntness [1,062] Poker at: Carbon Game: NLHE
Originally Posted by Muph Yeah if you need special software that people can't even get without paying for just to win than I'd say that's cheating. But to each his own.
Uhhh I know Carbon Poker offers a free poker tracker that tracks everyone's stats. So I'm pretty sure it's not cheating haha.
  #7 12th December 2014, 4:48 AM
YouPay4MyCrack [81] Online Poker at: Full Flush Game: holdem
re: Poker & Understanding Poker Tracking Software
Originally Posted by Sil3ntness Uhhh I know Carbon Poker offers a free poker tracker that tracks everyone's stats. So I'm pretty sure it's not cheating haha.
Is that why Bovada /Bodog doesn't allow them?
Originally Posted by HooDooKoo LOL. Whatever helps you sleep at night, fish. -HooDooKoo
Coming from someone who needs to pay for special software just to win lmao, I'm in the top 10% of online players listed on Official Poker Rankings without this crap.. Fish. Wonder how you play in real life, oh that's right you can't without your special tools :P What a sad bunch of players online poker has created, what has NLH become D:
  #8 12th December 2014, 4:55 AM
HooDooKoo [985] Poker at: Bovada Game: hold'em
Originally Posted by Muph Is that why Bovada/Bodog doesn't allow them? Coming from someone who needs to pay for special software just to win lmao, I'm in the top 10% of online players listed on Official Poker Rankings without this crap.. Fish. Wonder how you play in real life, oh that's right you can't without your special tools :P What a sad bunch of players online poker has created, what has NLH become D:
I'm an online pro that lives in the US, and I only play at Bovada. As a result, I can't use the "special software", but I'm making a living playing poker without it --- so I'm pretty sure I'm not a fish. Anytime you want to play HU for your entire bankroll , you let me know. Thanks. -HooDooKoo
  #9 12th December 2014, 5:00 AM
YouPay4MyCrack [81] Online Poker at: Full Flush Game: holdem
Originally Posted by HooDooKoo I'm an online pro that lives in the US, and I only play at Bovada. As a result, I can't use the "special software", but I'm making a living playing poker without it --- so I'm pretty sure I'm not a fish. Anytime you want to play HU for your entire bankroll, you let me know. Thanks. -HooDooKoo
Only an idiot would play HU with their entire bankroll. Any "pro" would know this, it's basic bankroll management.. But you still say you're a pro? Lol?
  #10 12th December 2014, 5:06 AM
HooDooKoo [985] Poker at: Bovada Game: hold'em
Originally Posted by Muph Only an idiot would play HU with their entire bankroll. Any "pro" would know this, it's basic bankroll management.. But you still say you're a pro? Lol?
Try and catch up, sonny. I can play for YOUR entire bankroll, because your bankroll is a pittance to me. To put it another way, you'd be playing for your bankroll, but I'd be playing for pocket change. -HooDooKoo
  #11 12th December 2014, 5:09 AM
YouPay4MyCrack [81] Online Poker at: Full Flush Game: holdem
What software is the best for Full Flush? I've always considered using software cheating but after coming to this site and seeing the overwhelming amount of people using it I'd have to be an idiot not to even the odds . Whats the best for Full Flush?
  #12 12th December 2014, 5:17 AM
HooDooKoo [985] Poker at: Bovada Game: hold'em
Originally Posted by Muph I've always considered using software cheating but after coming to this site and seeing the overwhelming amount of people using it I'd have to be an idiot not to even the odds. Whats the best for Full Flush?
Holdem Manager 2 or PokerTracker 4 For a comparison between the two, read this: http://www.pokerleakbuster.com/poker...emmanager.html -HooDooKoo
  #13 12th December 2014, 5:39 AM
YouPay4MyCrack [81] Online Poker at: Full Flush Game: holdem
Originally Posted by HooDooKoo Try and catch up, sonny. I can play for YOUR entire bankroll, because your bankroll is a pittance to me. To put it another way, you'd be playing for your bankroll, but I'd be playing for pocket change. -HooDooKoo
Right. Because you know my bankroll, look I made you look dumb by outwitting you now you're trying to cover.. It's cool :P
  #14 12th December 2014, 5:45 AM
emirlidan [765] Poker at: carbon Game: holdem
re: Poker & Understanding Poker Tracking Software ya'll should stop arguing or take it to private messages anyway poker tracker isn't cheating it gives an advantage but it's part of the online world and most places couldn't stop it unless they followed bovada way and went the anon route which a lot of players are against so you have a couple options play on bovada, adapt, play live, or just accept that some people will have an advantage though poker software i don't use the software and I've won plenty of money online
  #15 12th December 2014, 1:04 PM
PokerTracker [623]
Originally Posted by YouPay4MyCrack How do I make it so I don't come up in other players Poker Tracker software? I really don't like cheaters so I don't want to give them this information about me if I can help it..
Hi YouPay4MyCrack, we have been providing software for online poker players for nearly 14 years, this is longer than most of the players here on Chardschat have been playing - and we are proud of the achievements our software has helped some players achieve. Personal tracking software tracks your own play, in turn it also tracks your personal experience with opponents. Due to the nature of the way a personal tracker works, this is an incomplete picture of your opponents - we designed it this way intentionally because the nerly universally accepted rules of the game allow you to make notes and record observations about your opponents. For example if you are in Las Vegas playing live, you can pull out a pad and paper and record everything you observe - this is 100% legal and within the rules of the game. PokerTracker automates this observation process, but only for hands that you are personally involved in and where the online poker provides hand histories written to your local computer specifically for the purpose of tracking your own records. Its best to compare what we do to professional sports, I will use Baseball as the example. Baseball fans have access to stats for all of the teams, as well as all players. A Baseball fan has access to these stats even if they do not watch a game. Conversely an online poker player only has access to his own personal stats, we are not in the business of sharing stats for games you did not participate in. There are many promoters of online poker that want to "sportify" the game, if part of sportification is providing stats for all players regardless of your personal involvement in the game then we would not support this type of sportification - our experience is designed to be personal, this makes it a fair and acceptable use to utilise our tools on networks that allow and/or encourage the use of our service such as PokerStars , Party, iPoker, 888 , and others.
Originally Posted by Muph Yeah if you need special software that people can't even get without paying for just to win than I'd say that's cheating. But to each his own.
PokerTracker is available for free as a signup incentive, and we have partnerships with various online poker rooms. At one time we even gave away a http://www.holdemmanager.com/hm-cloud/ Over the many years we have been in business we have heard from users who suggest we charge signifigantly more for our software than we do, we have heard from some players who think we should charge ,000, or even ,000 for access to our software - we of course think this is ridiculous; we prefer to offer it for a very affordable fee of .99 which is less than the price of dinner for two in many countries. Some players argue that everyone should have access to a HUD, we disagree - we have always felt a HUD is an optional choice. Can you imagine if you were trading stocks and you were required to use a trading desk and review technical analysis before you made a trade? Trading desks are optional tools, in the same way that personal Trackers and HUDs are optional tools - nobody should be forced to opt in, it is a personal choice.
Originally Posted by Randall McMurphy Bovada/Bodog does not allow those trackers, as far as I know.
Actually this is not true. The terms of service for Bovada do allow personal tracking. Bovada chose to provide hand histories 24 hours after the game is completed and include all of the hole cards. Can you imagine if you played a live poker game where at the end of the hand everyone turned over their hole cards - even those who folded preflop? Thats why we choose to not support Bovada. It might also surprise you to know that Bovada actually asked us to support their 4.0 software, we declined their request. We supported Bodog 3.0 software with the company's full permission, in fact we were close with the CEO at the time.
Originally Posted by Muph Coming from someone who needs to pay for special software just to win lmao, I'm in the top 10% of online players listed on Official Poker Rankings without this crap.. Fish. Wonder how you play in real life, oh that's right you can't without your special tools :P
I think you may be confusing the functionality of the HUD, which is just one feature of PokerTracker. The HUD is designed to help you multitable, it is an optional tool - some players actually disable their HUD while using PokerTracker. If you play in small fields of opponents or know all of your opponents as high stakes players do, then you may not need to use a HUD. If you play in massive fields of opponents and rarely come across the same opponents frequently then a HUD will help you remember who each of your opponents are. If you play at one table at a time taking meticulous notes then you may not need a HUD, but if you multitable it becomes very hard to take great notes which means the HUD becomes more helpful. The HUD will not make you a better player, any edge you gain is by making you more productive - this is a concept that confuses some players, the inherent advantage you gain by using a HUD is by being more productive. A similar concept exists in the financial markets, if you are a stock trader you do not have an edge if you use a trading desk; the trading desk is only designed to make you more productive.
Originally Posted by emirlidan anyway poker tracker isn't cheating it gives an advantage but it's part of the online world and most places couldn't stop it unless they followed bovada way and went the anon route which a lot of players are against
We support anonymous tables; but we do not support Bovada. See above for details
Originally Posted by emirlidan so you have a couple options play on bovada, adapt, play live, or just accept that some people will have an advantage though poker software i don't use the software and I've won plenty of money online
A live game does not need a tracker, in a live game your brain performs the exact same function as PokerTracker. Problem is the human brain is "programed" to remember faces, not screen names... in a live game you can quickly get get a feel for your opponent's playing style, online we need more information because the brain does not process the observations in the same way - therefore we create stats, and you can use these stats in conjunction with one another to begin to create what we call an "opponent profile" in your mind that mimics the exact same process we naturally perform in a live game. We like to compare PokerTracker to an encyclopedia. Owning an encyclopedia does not make you smarter, just like owning PokerTracker does not make you a better player... only those who take the time to study using the data contained within PokerTracker become better players. It takes lots of research AFTER the game is done for PokerTracker to help you to become a better player, those who review hands and sessions post-game by running various reports with filters will learn quicker than their counterparts how to improve their own games. Many players overvalue the use of the HUD, they mistakenly think of PokerTracker as a HUD & post game graph tool - if these same players instead used PokerTracker like a post-game encyclopedia reviewing their hands then they would get far more mour of our software. As always, we are happy to answer any reasonable questions or concerns the OP or anyone else in this thread may have. Feel free to ask, we will do our best to give you honest and fair answers!
  #16 12th December 2014, 4:49 PM
PokerTracker [623]
Originally Posted by Muph I've always considered using software cheating but after coming to this site and seeing the overwhelming amount of people using it I'd have to be an idiot not to even the odds. Whats the best for Full Flush?
Although we would love to have you as a customer, we must be honest - using tracking software will not "even the odds". The use of personal tracking software will not make you a better player, only you can make yourself a better player. Luckily for you personal tracking software can help you to help yourself become a better player - but this is mostly done after the game is over away from the tables through personal review of your play. The HUD will help you to become more productive decisions which in turn allow you to multitable easier - but once again the HUD cannot improve your play; but improvement can come with post-game review. As for Full Flush, this is a skin on the Equity Poker Network; this network is not supported by PokerTracker 4 or Holdem Manager 2.
  #17 13th December 2014, 5:22 AM
BigJamo [2,090] Online Poker at: Poker Stars Game: Hold'em/RAZZ
I don't use these type of Software & I run ok.
  #18 14th December 2014, 3:29 AM
YouPay4MyCrack [81] Poker at: Full Flush Game: holdem
Originally Posted by PokerTracker Although we would love to have you as a customer, we must be honest - using tracking software will not "even the odds". The use of personal tracking software will not make you a better player, only you can make yourself a better player. Luckily for you personal tracking software can help you to help yourself become a better player - but this is mostly done after the game is over away from the tables through personal review of your play. The HUD will help you to become more productive decisions which in turn allow you to multitable easier - but once again the HUD cannot improve your play; but improvement can come with post-game review. As for Full Flush, this is a skin on the Equity Poker Network; this network is not supported by PokerTracker 4 or Holdem Manager 2.
Well I mean for other players. I thought this stuff tells you how often they fold to c-bet, etc...?
  #19 15th December 2014, 6:37 PM
PokerTracker [623]
Originally Posted by YouPay4MyCrack Well I mean for other players. I thought this stuff tells you how often they fold to c-bet, etc...?
Tracking software like PokerTracker and Holdem Manager track your own play. While tracking your own play, you are also tracking the games you play in - which means you must also track the opponents you face in these games to have a proper accounting of your own game play. You will therefore get stats on your opponents as a side effect of tracking your own play, but we only record the hands you play vs these opponents. Getting stats on opponents from hands you have not personally plaid is considered datamining, which is (to the best of our knowledge) against the terms of service for each online poker network we support - and we don't know of any sites that still allow this that we do not support (years ago this was allowed by a few sites, but that has changed over time). Hope this explanation helps, feel free to ask additional questions.
  #20 15th December 2014, 9:02 PM
YouPay4MyCrack [81] Poker at: Full Flush Game: holdem
Originally Posted by PokerTracker Tracking software like PokerTracker and Holdem Manager track your own play. While tracking your own play, you are also tracking the games you play in - which means you must also track the opponents you face in these games to have a proper accounting of your own game play. You will therefore get stats on your opponents as a side effect of tracking your own play, but we only record the hands you play vs these opponents. Getting stats on opponents from hands you have not personally plaid is considered datamining, which is (to the best of our knowledge) against the terms of service for each online poker network we support - and we don't know of any sites that still allow this that we do not support (years ago this was allowed by a few sites, but that has changed over time). Hope this explanation helps, feel free to ask additional questions.
Oh wow, it appears I was under a false impression on this. That actually seems perfectly reasonable to me. Lol, I was getting all mad over nothing.
  #21 15th December 2014, 9:20 PM
rhombus [2,590] Game: NL/PLO/PLO8
re: Poker & Understanding Poker Tracking Software
Originally Posted by YouPay4MyCrack Oh wow, it appears I was under a false impression on this. That actually seems perfectly reasonable to me. Lol, I was getting all mad over nothing.
used to be ok. remember reading once on full Tilt and probably on a few other sites, you could just open loads of tables and just observe while holdem manager was running and it would track all the players without you even being there. Open up tables run HEM and when you came back from work have loads of hands!!! Think some sites even sell hand histories, but probably illegal
  #22 15th December 2014, 11:52 PM
Syltan [1,255] Poker at: Pokerstars Game: holdem
Holdem management 2 and poker tracker 4 similar programs, the most popular and of course not free)
  #23 16th December 2014, 5:14 AM
HoldemManager [344]
A few sites used to allow it. WPN is the last as far as I know to allow it, but a recent update closed the loophole. We do not support datamining, as it is against most site's terms and conditions. udbrky Customer Support
  #24 16th December 2014, 9:43 PM
PokerTracker [623]
Originally Posted by rhombus Think some sites even sell hand histories, but probably illegal
That is true, some sites do sell hand histories - and sadly there is nothing we can do to stop them from being used in our software. Datamining against the terms of the online poker room can only occur when a site provides "observed hands", these are hands where the Hero was not dealt in. Its our jub to support the hand historys provided by the online poker room, if they provide observed hands then we need to support these hands - and that is the loophole that dataminers take advantage of. Ironically one of the only networks that no longer provides observed hands is WPN; they recently removed the ability to push observed hands to your desktop from their network; and in turn changed their terms of service to make datamining against the rules for the first time. The management of WPN are close friends, we applaud their decision, it was the right thing to do. Hopefully other online poker networks will follow in their footsteps in the future.
Originally Posted by HoldemManager A few sites used to allow it. WPN is the last as far as I know to allow it, but a recent update closed the loophole.
To further clarify, we (the parent company of both Holdem Manager and PokerTracker) advised WPN to close this loophole, it was the right thing to do.
  #25 16th December 2014, 9:44 PM
PokerTracker [623]
Originally Posted by YouPay4MyCrack Oh wow, it appears I was under a false impression on this. That actually seems perfectly reasonable to me. Lol, I was getting all mad over nothing.
We find that many players who were "up in arms" that trackers exist are usually just misinformed, when they speak with us or become better informed the majority of players quickly realize the service our software provides is 100% legitimate, and actually has an important purpose in the online poker ecology. Unfortunately we cannot stop the rumors and misinformation, much of which comes from well meaning players who are just misinformed. This is one of the reasons why we participate on forums, it helps us to get the truth out to the general public. Thanks for taking the time to learn, we are honored you are now "on our side"!
  #26 16th December 2014, 9:56 PM
rhombus [2,590] Game: NL/PLO/PLO8
an analogy would be when everyone had wooden tennis rackets and this guy came along with an oversized graphite/titianium racket with catgut and when he hit the ball everyone said WTF, or the golfers with the latest technoogy in their driver. Its just a tool/ technology thats freely available no cheating and alot of people including myself who actually have it dont get the full benefits because they dont use it properly Its not going to make you a winner overnight maybe make you a smaller loser You get out what you put in, its like saying people shouldnt have books about poker because the readers will become better players, just get a book and read it or get a free trial and see if you like it
  #27 16th December 2014, 11:46 PM
PokerTracker [623]
Originally Posted by rhombus an analogy would be when everyone had wooden tennis rackets and this guy came along with an oversized graphite/titianium racket with catgut and when he hit the ball everyone said WTF, or the golfers with the latest technoogy in their driver. Its just a tool/ technology thats freely available no cheating and alot of people including myself who actually have it dont get the full benefits because they dont use it properly Its not going to make you a winner overnight maybe make you a smaller loser You get out what you put in, its like saying people shouldnt have books about poker because the readers will become better players, just get a book and read it or get a free trial and see if you like it
Good example. We often compare PokerTracker and Holdem Manager to an encyclopedia of your own playing experience. Most people who own encyclopedia's never read the books, owning an encyclopedia doesn't make you smarter - but if you take the time to read and learn then you will become smarter. Tracking software is the same way, if you take the time to review your game after the sessions are done, then you have a greater probability of becoming a great player. The real value from owning PokerTracker and Holdem Manager is after the game is complete, the HUD's job is to improve performance - but only post game review can make you a better player.
  #28 17th December 2014, 10:45 PM
YouPay4MyCrack [81] Poker at: Full Flush Game: holdem
re: Poker & Understanding Poker Tracking Software
Originally Posted by rhombus an analogy would be when everyone had wooden tennis rackets and this guy came along with an oversized graphite/titianium racket with catgut and when he hit the ball everyone said WTF, or the golfers with the latest technoogy in their driver. Its just a tool/ technology thats freely available no cheating and alot of people including myself who actually have it dont get the full benefits because they dont use it properly Its not going to make you a winner overnight maybe make you a smaller loser You get out what you put in, its like saying people shouldnt have books about poker because the readers will become better players, just get a book and read it or get a free trial and see if you like it
People shouldn't be cheating by reading books from pros offering insight. Lol, jk. I thought the software was doing data mining, that's why I thought it was cheating, but I've looked into it a lot since then. Now I know it's not cheating lol.
Originally Posted by PokerTracker We find that many players who were "up in arms" that trackers exist are usually just misinformed, when they speak with us or become better informed the majority of players quickly realize the service our software provides is 100% legitimate, and actually has an important purpose in the online poker ecology. Unfortunately we cannot stop the rumors and misinformation, much of which comes from well meaning players who are just misinformed. This is one of the reasons why we participate on forums, it helps us to get the truth out to the general public. Thanks for taking the time to learn, we are honored you are now "on our side"!
Not a problem, thanks for taking the time to explain it
  #29 27th December 2014, 1:22 AM
Landopope [91] Online Poker at: Merge WPN Game: Holdem
Originally Posted by HoldemManager A few sites used to allow it. WPN is the last as far as I know to allow it, but a recent update closed the loophole. We do not support datamining, as it is against most site's terms and conditions. udbrky Customer Support
I thought WPN was one of the few sites that didn't allow mucked hands to be seen? Is that so they could sell the hand histories?
  #30 27th December 2014, 5:17 PM
HoldemManager [344]
Originally Posted by Landopope I thought WPN was one of the few sites that didn't allow mucked hands to be seen? Is that so they could sell the hand histories?
WPN does not, and never did, 'sell hands' to my knowledge. They used to write observed hands to disc when not even sitting at a table so that you could use any standard tracker like HM2/PT4 and datamine hands. They stopped doing this earlier this year as part of the preparations for being able to show all mucked cards in the hand history files even if the player chooses not to show at the table like other sites do. That update is supposedly coming sometime early in 2015 last I heard from the WPN Rep on 2+2. Fozzy71 Customer Support
  #31 1st January 2015, 12:57 AM
JoeyStoll [2]
Originally Posted by PokerTracker Actually this is not true. The terms of service for Bovada do allow personal tracking. Bovada chose to provide hand histories 24 hours after the game is completed and include all of the hole cards. Can you imagine if you played a live poker game where at the end of the hand everyone turned over their hole cards - even those who folded preflop? Thats why we choose to not support Bovada.
Hello; I literally had to sign up on this site, after I read this quote above, to respond to this. I've never posted in a poker forum in my life, but this one really got me going. I've got to call BS on this statement. You chose NOT to support Bovada because they....24 hour AFTER release hand histories of what EVERYONE'S hole cards are. So WHAT?!?! Everyone is anonymous on Bovada. There is ZERO advantage to knowing what (let use an example) say "player 6" had even if he folded preflop. OMG "player 6" fold XYZ hand I'll remember that for next time.....UMMMM no you won't, because you have zero clue who player 6 is going to be next time..... Your analogy of the live poker game is just not even in the same realm, if it was live and you saw everyone cards yes that makes no sense, but anonymous online gives you zero edge knowing what everyone had 24 hours later, because you'll never know if your playing that same person again. Maybe I'm not understanding something here, and I'd love for you to enlighten me. But how the heck does this make any logical sense what you are saying here. PS -- I only bring this up because I 100% wish you would make your program compatible with Bovada. I really miss the tracking features and being able to replay big hands that I won and lost on. Checking all my stats/percentages and comparing them to others. Also that graph charting your wins and losses is a thing of pure gold. I really miss watching that chart going up over time...so cool.... PLEASE RESPOND I'M CURIOUS.... Thanks Joey Stoll
  #32 1st January 2015, 1:21 AM
WVHillbilly [22,902] Poker at: Full Tilt
Yeah I agree that PT and HEM choosing not to support importing day-old, anonymous hands is silly, especially for the reason they posted above. There is a 3rd party util that I use that allows you to import Bovada hhs. http://acepokersolutions.com/bovadahandconverter.html
  #33 1st January 2015, 1:31 AM
PokerTracker [623]
Originally Posted by JoeyStoll Hello; I literally had to sign up on this site, after I read this quote above, to respond to this. I've never posted in a poker forum in my life, but this one really got me going. I've got to call BS on this statement. You chose NOT to support Bovada because they....24 hour AFTER release hand histories of what EVERYONE'S hole cards are. So WHAT?!?!
Your confusing two different components of our software. The tracker is the main application, the HUD is just a display of the information in the tracker; but the HUD is not as important as the information contained within the tracker. We could certainly support Bovada if we wished to within the tracker, which is what we explained the post you incorrectly claimed is BS. Also, in case you were not aware, the technology actually does exist to create a HUD at Bovada, the Bovada poker client is not that secure - it would not be that hard to tap into the memory to mimic a hand history from memory. With that said, this is something we will not do; it is against our moral code. Our original quote is below to verify that our statement was 100% accurate and true.
Originally Posted by PokerTracker Originally Posted by Randall McMurphy Bovada/Bodog does not allow those trackers, as far as I know. Actually this is not true. The terms of service for Bovada do allow personal tracking. Bovada chose to provide hand histories 24 hours after the game is completed and include all of the hole cards. Can you imagine if you played a live poker game where at the end of the hand everyone turned over their hole cards - even those who folded preflop? Thats why we choose to not support Bovada. It might also surprise you to know that Bovada actually asked us to support their 4.0 software, we declined their request. We supported Bodog 3.0 software with the company's full permission, in fact we were close with the CEO at the time.
Everyone is anonymous on Bovada. There is ZERO advantage to knowing what (let use an example) say "player 6" had even if he folded preflop. OMG "player 6" fold XYZ hand I'll remember that for next time.....UMMMM no you won't, because you have zero clue who player 6 is going to be next time.....
Partially incorrect. We agree there is no advantage, but we also never claimed that you have an advantage using a HUD at a normal table... a losing player with a HUD will still be a losing player, there is no advantage to be gained. What the HUD provides is productivity... you could slow down the game and take meticulous notes on each anonymous opponent, or you can use the HUD's ability to track each hand do this for you. PokerTracker supports anonymous tables at PartyPoker, iPoker, and Microgaming MPN for example - and in each situation the use of a HUD helps the player by allowing him or her to be more productive, and possibly play at more tables at the same time without having to over-rely on taking meticulous notes.
Your analogy of the live poker game is just not even in the same realm, if it was live and you saw everyone cards yes that makes no sense, but anonymous online gives you zero edge knowing what everyone had 24 hours later, because you'll never know if your playing that same person again.
Bovada decided to re-write the rules of the game to help them combat fears of cheating through collusion by showing all of the hole cards. It does not matter if the game is anonymous or not, showing all the cards at the table does not conform with the rules of poker in any format; and therefore something we will not support for personal tracking. Our decision has nothing to do with edges gained, its a rules issue in our eyes, and we are confidant that we made the right choice morally. Additionally there is the issue of post-Black Friday legality, which we discuss below. As you can see, this is a rather complex topic! PS: There is a third party Bovada converter for PokerTracker, this converter changes hands to PokerStars format. PokerTracker will import these improperly formatted hands because our importer cannot tell the difference between an authorised PokerStars hand and an unauthorised third party conversion, however these hands are not officially supported. They have been known to break many of our filters because they were not designed to address hands where hole cards for all players are known.
PS -- I only bring this up because I 100% wish you would make your program compatible with Bovada. I really miss the tracking features and being able to replay big hands that I won and lost on. Checking all my stats/percentages and comparing them to others. Also that graph charting your wins and losses is a thing of pure gold. I really miss watching that chart going up over time...so cool....
See our answers above, but if you have a specific question we will be happy to answer if this post does not clear things up for you. Its unlikely that our policies on this matter will change because the management of Bovada has been indicted, we do not wish to add support for any companies that have been indicted by the DOJ, its not good business to do so. Instead our focus is on the regulated markets, for example we are proud to support the state of New Jersey in the USA. We still support some legacy networks such as WPN, Merge, and Cake but that is primarily because we supported them prior to black friday - we do not support any new US facing networks post black friday unless they are licensed, regulated, and legally allowed to perform within the market. PokerTracker's parent company prides itself on being an accountable company within the industry, we work closely with sites and regulators whenever possible to assure compliance.
  #34 1st January 2015, 1:35 AM
PokerTracker [623]
Originally Posted by WVHillbilly Yeah I agree that PT and HEM choosing not to support importing day-old, anonymous hands is silly, especially for the reason they posted above. There is a 3rd party util that I use that allows you to import Bovada hhs. http://acepokersolutions.com/bovadahandconverter.html
This converter works by changing Bovada hands to PokerStars format. PokerTracker will import these improperly formatted hands because our importer cannot tell the difference between an authorised PokerStars hand and an unauthorised third party conversion, however these hands are not officially supported. They have been known to break many of our filters because they were not designed to address hands where hole cards for all players are known (if only the hands at showdown are recorded in the hand history these problems will not occur). If we wanted to support Bovada hands we could create an importer in less than a week, we already have the technology to do this - but there are many other factors involved such as the filters, legality, morality, and other topics such as indictments from the DOJ that keeps us from supporting Bovada. It is highly unlikely that our policy on this matter will change anytime soon, until then you are free to use the third party converter if you wish - but you should be aware that we will not support any problems caused by the converter - eventually these problems appear if you use certain reports or filters.
  #35 1st January 2015, 1:36 AM
WVHillbilly [22,902] Online Poker at: Full Tilt
re: Poker & Understanding Poker Tracking Software You supported Stars while they were under indictment by the DoJ. So that excuse is pure BS.
 
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